Interviewed Matthew Herbert for Earplug Q+A. Met at the Tribeca Grand, in the lobby. Same spot as my first interview, for Urb Magazine with Dot Allison. Post Y2K, the electronic clique still squats at the Grands.
Earlier in the week, on Wednesday, caught Herbert’s set at the Canal Room. After a twitchy, tweeker, acid-fest that made Soho feel like Detroit or Berlin, he closed the night with a homegrown heros’ classic, the Bucketheads, “These Sounds;” the industry geeks went ape-shit. Proof that after 2 decades in the game, Masters at Work can still move the crowds. For the trainspotters awaiting an “Aha” moment, he then dropped Stevie Wonder’s “Don’t you Worry about a Thing.” Funny to watch Swilliamsburgers faux cha-cha to Mr. Rednow’s retro Salsoul fusion.
Back in the hotel lobby, tape recorder in hand, 10 minutes late, into the gap..
Matthew Herbert: Earplug Q + A
That was a very hard, Detroit kind of set you were playing at the Canal Room Wednesday night. Do you feel any particular affinity with that city?
New York House was actually much more of an influence on me-early Roger Sanchez stuff, Todd Terry, Strictly Rhythm; there was a good thing going on here for a while.
Where are you living these days? What’s your take on the scene in London? How’s the population change influencing the music?
I live in the countryside in England. The main musical problem in London was these big super clubs opened up and killed off all the little scenes that were going on-and they stopped paying people properly, so that really messed with the dynamic. London’s extremely important globally, and extremely rubbish globally. It has an inflated opinion of itself, but its still an important place.
Hearing you close your DJ set with Stevie Wonder’s “Don’t You Worry About a Thing” gave me a peculiar listening for SCALE. There is a very classic American Soul feel to this CD.
That’s one of the influences I’ve inherited in a way because i don’t spend a lot of time listening to old music. That’s not strictly true, I do listen to old music but it tends to be Mahler, orchestral stuff. I don’t want to make a record that’s pastiche or parody or has any influence like that, but there is a nostalgia for a time when pop music was done with craft, was done with musicians playing properly and everything was done to a high standard.
Were you listening to anything in particular around the time you made this album?
Not really, my life is nonstop and generally full of music, so in my time off I don’t like just anything; I like to be quiet. At a couple moments I did listen to Quincy Jones or Earth Wind and Fire to listen to just how they mixed the orchestra in with the band. They mixed them extremely quietly, really. Mine’s significantly louder than that, but I had 140 channels of audio after the Abbey Road sessions. It was quite a technical thing, mixing all of that.
Did you do most of this at home?
Yes, The whole thing, apart from one day at Abbey Road doing all the musical sessions. Then, everything else was done at home, including the mixing.
So what’s the home studio like?
It’s a lounge at the moment, quite big. It’s got a massive Harrison console from the 80’s, a lot of Apple gear. It’s pretty much a professional studio in terms of layout. The problem with a studio is it keeps changing. You change one thing and it affects the signal, so then you have to change everything else. You have all this equipment that stops working. Also, you have pieces of equipment that you use for certain sounds and once you’ve used them a couple times you don’t really want to use them again.
Are you a gadget freak?
No, not really. Ultimately what I work with is microphones and recordings, that’s all I do really. I do check things out from time to time, but I think if you spend too much time on the technology, you’re doing the wrong thing. You should be making music really.
This CD sounds like it would play really well live. Are there any venues you would like to play in, for the acoustics or historical appeal?
It’s more about the audience really. We’ve played everywhere from the Hollywood Bowl to shitty little bars with no stage. I think it’s really about the ambition of the music and the intention of the music, rather than where it’s performed. Those big venues are often horrible for amplified music, because they’re designed to amplify acoustic music. As soon as you put a PA in there, you’re battling with the room. They might be good to listen in, but they’re awful to play at.
What are the tour plans for this?
It’s difficult coming through America because the fees are so low. We lose money on every show.
Dani Siciliano’s going to be touring with you?
We did her album at the same time, we finished it at the same time, so we’re gonna be touring together as well. We do her show, then we play for a few minutes, then we do my show, so we’ll be sharing musicians.
There’s a lot of singers trying to do what she does, but not as well. How long have you guys been working together?
About 8 years. She’s pro, she’s a damn good singer. I get sent a lot of remixes of these floaty, ethereal female voices and none of them are half as good.
So you won’t be doing any Goldfrapp remixes any time soon?
Nah, no.
How are you getting around because you weren’t so keen on flying?
I have take the boat here and then drive. It’s a new thing for me.
Do you carry equipment with you? Are you out just collecting sounds?
No. I used to do that. But now I’m very specific. The world is making noise all the time, nonstop. You’d go mad if you try to collect everything.
How do you move yourself onto the next project?
Normally, the government starts a new war, or Starbucks opens another branch.
What do you think about Starbucks selling music?
I don’t like the exclusive thing. But ultimately, what’s the difference? We have to pay to display our music. Record shops in America make more money from record companies than they do from people buying music, so they’re all just promotional fronts anyway. The whole music industry is corrupt anyway.
Do you take any joy in watching the old label system go down the tubes?
It depends what replaces it. I think those big companies will find a way to establish their strangle hold in a different way. I do think with digital music, we can distribute our music instantly. So, I finish an album, it can be online within an hour. And provided that you have a group of interesting people that know who you are, then it becomes an important way of bypassing all those structures. it’s pure profit generally, as well, because you don’t make anything – you’re not making plastic and shipping it around the world. It has the possibility of being a genuine revolution but at the moment it’s a big mess.
Does the digital thing give you more room to play with sound, having direct contact with the audience?
No, not really, because I’m not restricted by anything, so changing distribution won’t really do anything. I think the bigger problem is people like Madonna making shit records. Everyone wants to hear it, but no one necessarily wants to buy it.
I like the Roy Ayers mixes you did. What about guys like him? They seem to be missing these days.
There’s a real lack of ambition in electronic and dance music. It’s incredibly conservative. It’s particularly disappointing in electronic and dance music because it’s supposed to be a forward-thinking genre, pushing boundaries.
You seem to share some composer qualities with Arthur Russell. Are you a fan?
Not really. Dani likes his stuff. I think it’s about an attitude, about getting musicians to do the best mix musicians can do, and getting computers to do things computers can do and not mix or mess the two up. There’s nothing worse than a computer playing a string section; there’s nothing worse than a live band trying to do a house tune. I don’t think of music like that. I’m not trying to fit my music in the canon of other music. I’m trying to do what is relevant today and what’s relevant today is that there’s a lack of attention to detail, a lack of craft.
Production-wise, lyrically, or from the top down?
Top down. We’ve become very complacent. We’re sitting here in a hotel lobby, and we’re listening to this abstract mix that’s really just a conservative rehashing of old idioms.
Do you blame marketing? What do you think happened?
I don’t know what happened. Electronic music was supposed to be free from all that. I think it’s part of a society that is happy to consume without thinking of the consequences, or is happy just to fit in or be authentic, and being authentic these days is owning a nice car. People are happy to submit themselves to authority figures. Part of that is, if I’m making house records and a DJ doesn’t play them, then it’s useless. So people are willing to make records to fit in with other records, and it becomes a downward spiral of mediocrity.
Who are you excited by musically these days?
I’m always impressed by the stuff coming out of Germany, and I like some French house music. I think some of that’s interesting. There’s always going to be good music out there. But it’s all really feeble when you consider how much music is being made.
When do you think electronic music peaked on its promise?
I think that “Get Your Freak On” by Missy Elliot, that was the nail on the coffin of electronic music. It took some of the best ideas and then just made it into bad pop music.
Given your assemblage approach, how do you know when you’re done with it, when it’s finished?
It’s totally specific, they’re not random these things. If someone’s being sick on the record, it’s there for a particular reason, at a particular point in the song, and at a particular location – outside of an arms fair. If there’s someone playing golf on the record, then there’s 12 hits of the ball. It’s in pursuit of a greater ideal. With this record, I wanted to let the music breathe a little more. In the past, all my rules left me little to work with; on this record I just wanted to enjoy the song aspect more.
On the surface the music on this CD is very sweet, but underneath it’s very meticulous. How hard did you tinker over these tracks?
I think it’s something I’m obsessive about. These things are important to me, and I’m determined not to make trivial music.
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After a stir crazy winter of cabin fever spent sitting at home “playing” with my fish, yelling at Law + Order reruns, shoveling Haagen Dazs in my brownie hole, I have decided it’s time to go back to the gym.
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